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Subject - Feedback on the updated unit PNGs
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Posted By: Ken Pierce (2004-03-23 07:35:45)

Must say nice job on the pics
I am curious on how you did the detail.
did you to them as jpg then shrink then convert to png?

Bomber very nice B-52 ;-)

Carrier much improvement

Chopper it is a little hard to see the chopper due to the dark colors also it looks alot more like a apache attack helo rather then a helo that can carry 2 marines.

Commando ; Marine ; Jet marine much improvement over org but it is hard to see them on the map I always miss the enemy units on the edge of the fog. perhaps a lighter grey pants. Also it is difficult to tell the difference between them at a glance. Also I noticed that they almost apear faded like they are stealth.

Hover Tank Nice
Fighter perfect F22 raptor ;-)
Tank another nice improvement

Over all I like to see the new graphics as I am sure Tully is too. I have planed a modern warfare senerio using modern weapons, abrams, bradleys, apaches, blackhawks, palidins, patriots, steath fighters and so on. I was wondering if you would allow me to use some of your graphics and allow me to tweak them abit.

Ken Pierce

Posted By: Tully (2004-03-23 07:52:14)

I am game at replacing the base units in the game with a collection of more modern units (ie get rid of the hover tank and jet marine for other units with similar function that are real)

There are a couple more changes coming down the pipeline that you might want to think about if tweaking the units...

* There is going to be a min range added to units with a range of more than one. So if you might have a max range of three squares and a min range of two (meaning you cant shoot things close to you)

* If you have a range longer than one you can shoot or move but not both. If you have a range of one then you can move and whereever you end up at you can still attack things one square away from you.

* Just like things take fuel I am thinking about adding ammo

* I plan on adding two air to air missles to the fighter plane

* I am going to add two missle truck types to the game one with ground to air and one with ground to ground. But the trucks will not be able to build both (either or kind of thing)

* Unit cost will be rebalanced because of these changes and the field that you use to reduce a units cost is going away. So what the game calculates is what you get.

Feedback is welcome as always

Posted By: DWS (2004-03-23 08:25:56)

all the detail was done with 8x zoom in Microsoft Paint, nothing more. Easy Color Themes is a freeware tool that also came in handy as it provides you RGB color codes simply by hovering over something. that way when you go to make changes to your work it doesn't matter that Paint didn't remember all of your Custom Colors.

i have a generic Helo that i just made for Modern War because of that very reason. the Apache was then made into a mod. i'll upload the Apache mod as soon as i issue a new version of MW that has the Helo replacing the Apache. it fits in well with the game and also provides Pocket War a chopper with teeth.

you're definitely welcome to use the new graphics in your scenario and i'm very glad that you are happy with them overall. i'd be interested in seeing what changes you'd make to the units and perhaps the next version of MW will feature both of our work. my email is in the README.TXT. maybe together we could end up doing a modern version of all the units. that might entice Tully enough to integrate the Modern War graphics into PW 1.50. i'm thinking a user selectable option from the New Game menu.. Classic Mode or Modern Mode.

thanks a lot for the feedback.
Posted By: Ken Pierce (2004-03-23 08:26:15)

hmmm well I have two thoughts on the unit cost issue
there are people who like to play with "Super units" of course if you take away the ablility to ajust time build then they will not be able to play with them.

However it does take away from the game when you use super units.
I do think that if you want to use the unit you should wait the time.

I would hate to take that ablility away for those who use it.
I wonder if you could leave a setting in the config file that will turn on and off the ability to adjust build times. By default it would be off but by request you could give the setting to those who want it.
EX the B2 is on of these units. it adjust a -151 turns so without the adujment it would take 237 turns to make

Posted By: DWS (2004-03-23 08:35:41)

i like the idea of the units having a minimum range.
not real sure about the move or shoot but not both thing. i do enjoy seeing a Dominator streak in from nowhere and bring the pain all in the same turn.
i think an ammo counter would be an interesting addition.
i also like the idea of the Fighter having a couple of Air-to-Air's..
Missle Truck idea sounds cool, too.
just my opinion.

PS i agree with Ken on the unit cost issue. maybe make it selectable? the B2 is a monster but it's not worth 237 turns for one. plus my Apache mod gave me a number of 17 turns if i remember right, but once you see it you'll see why i gave it a build time of 26 or so (multi-attack, etc.).
Posted By: Compusmurf (2004-03-23 10:32:58)

The new graphics are great. The only complaints I have were already stated. Marine/commando/seal/ look too closely the same. The new helo is too hard to see.
>* There is going to be a min range added to units with a range of more than one. So if you might have a max range of three squares and a min range of two (meaning you cant shoot things close to you)

This shouldn't apply to all units. Artillery has a real large range, but without spotters, the see range should be pretty short. However, it can shoot close or far.
Same with the battleship and other units like tanks. Maybe make this selectable per unit or disabled per unit?

The unit cost issue. I fully agree with DWS and all. The calculation now is WAY OFF for "custom-mod" units. The A-10's calculation was like in the high 200's which is not right. A battleship should, for obvious reasons, take longer to build than a plane, etc.

I prefer NOT to play with the "strange, non real units" like the hover tank, jet marine, teleport gate, and things that don't exist. However, maybe convert the hover tank into a hover transport, with light weaponry?

I also agree with the ammo resupply. It really isn't fair to not have to resupply ammo. Of course, you'd have to make a unit that "creates" ammo supply dumps.

The Nuke is ok, but probably should be banned. We should convert it into a tomahawk missle that the city can use against ground units.

I agree on the missle launcher. Should have an AA system and a MLRS system. The AA system should be able to maintain the 4, the MLRS should definitely hold more, but be not as powerful. Also some "guidance" should be added to the missles. Sometimes they just do what they want....

Posted By: Compusmurf (2004-03-23 10:42:23)

Oh yeah, other units I'd like to see:

Morter/Anti tank marines.
Missle sub. (Haven't been able to finish this one)
Bridge Layer.
Large troop transport aircraft. (Galaxy or something similar) (That could deploy 10-12 units at a time and be faster than ship)

I would also like to see enemy units be able to use all of the MODS that you add to the game. Some of the mods give us unfair advantage over the computer.
Posted By: Tully (2004-03-23 10:47:25)

The reasoning behind the ranges, and attack vs move patterns is to add more strategy to the game, same with ammo. Like the unlimited fuel choice there will be an unlimited ammo choice for units as well. Setting a higher min range and requiring ammo will reduce build time (like setting a need for fuel does.)

Removing the reduction of build time setting also implys a rebalancing of unit cost. There is a reason for removing it. The new mod system will now allow me to do things I couldnt do before. Like allow different armies to use different types of units. In other words now you might not only pick an AI but an AI with a specific type of tech associated with it. (Bow down before my giant bug army.)

That also leads to multiplayer games where the each player bring their own set of army types to the table. To make sure those games remain balanced I can't allow people to create uber units and adjust the build time down to nothing.

Oh as an aside, I plan on changing the cities as well. Cities might only be able to build certain types of units. (Basically, cities might become buildings.) So you could start with a base city that can build marines and tanks, and have to take over an "airport" to get planes and choppers. Refueling trucks (which could provide ammo as well) might only be available from "supply depot" cities. etc.

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